0 second removes violate common sense.

I've only been playing here a month or so, and in that time I have suffered the occasional bitter disappointment of losing on time from a winning position to an opponent who knows how to premove (and hence uses no time at all) while I fumble my way into time loss.

Besides being a bit shocked that such a thing existed, I told myself hey-ho, them's the rules, gotta live with 'em!

But then I thought a bit more.

If oppo makes a premove, there is some INEVITABLE latency before that move is registered on my board. Who pays for that? Obviously not oppo, they took 0 seconds. So is it me who pays that time, or does the system take this into account? I trust it's the latter because the former flies in the face of all that is good and holy (?)

But in any case, I don't care how widespread 0-second premoves are on this site and others, nor do I care that they are obviously loved by some players -- THEY ARE AN ABOMINATION corresponding to no possible physical reality and for that reason alone they should be sent to hell where they belong.

(Honestly, I'm not sulking.)

join the long line winers...... Pre moves are part of internet chess live with that. Also I think somethin like 1/10 of a second is deducted from premovers clock. Also there is mechanism to take latencies into account.

U dont like internet chess rules then there is the option not to play

It's spelt "whiners".

And I wasn't whining.

And your thoughts of 1/10 of a second being deducted from the premover's clock are wrong -- premoves cost 0 seconds here.

And if they did cost 1/10s I wouldn't be here not-whining.

@petri999 , there is actually no time deducted for a premove on lichess-- only chess.com deducts 0.1 sec for a premove. Lichess deducts 0.
EDIT: I was working on this post before #3 posted.
EDIT 2: @TheGreatUnwashed , why don't you play blitz with increment? That way you wouldn't lose on time.

You may look here: lichess.org/lag

Thanks Arndti, I suspected as much.

0-second premoves are still an abomination.

Chess +0 is abomination, don't even know why ppl like this zoo. All genius games were played on 2h clock, that's time control which activates real brain, not reflexes.
Always bugged me, what does +0 represent when it goes back to real battle roots? A dynamite time bomb on each commander's head? They had no timers back then.

Maybe the following adds a bit to these various premove discussions, that I have never participated before...
I understand your opinion, but I have a completely other one. Why?
Besides loving lichess I must admit, that I logged into chess.com since a few days (after years again), because I like to oberve some extremely strong players playing unfortunately only there.
What I got and still have is an extremly ugly impression: Super GMs (and other levels as well, sure) play each other and the one is beating the other sometimes only on time by premoving dozens of silly moves in dead drawn endgames only because premoving there costs you 0.1s.
lichess premove implementation prevents this (in my opinion) unfair and ridiculous behaviour. I think that 0s premoves is the only correct approch to handle (faster time controls) in online chess.
Of course one can think about a user setting, that a player matches another one only if he has the same habit/setting. E.g. only non premovers are paired.
But as I said... my feeling is, that only 0s premoves guarantee a real flow in games. ;-)
After my impression I still cannot get, why players play faster time controls on platforms, where you don´t have 0s premoves.

"one is beating the other sometimes only on time by premoving dozens of silly moves in dead drawn endgames only because premoving there costs you 0.1s"

Wouldn't the situation be even worse if they were 0s premoves?

I totally agree with

" If oppo makes a premove, there is some INEVITABLE latency before that move is registered on my board. Who pays for that? Obviously not oppo, they took 0 seconds. So is it me who pays that time "

i noticed many time my time flies faster in end games when my opp premoves...